AW: [Oz] JBoss/Weblogic/EAServer/Oracle Application Server and Mo

[Jung , Christoph]

Hi Randall,

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>Von: Randall Burns [mailto:randall_burns at hotmail.com]
>Gesendet: Montag, 22. Mai 2000 23:15
>An: users at mozart-oz.org
>Betreff: [Oz] JBoss/Weblogic/EAServer/Oracle Application Server and
>Mozart


>Would anyone care to comment on the relationship between Mozart
>and application servers like JBoss,Weblogic etc? 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Mozart is - just as Java - a basic programming and distribution 
platform. Application servers (formerly known as TP-monitors)
are add-value extensions to such programming models in order to build
more sophisticated transactional runtime environments. This includes
automatic RDMS-mapping, distributed transactions, pooling, security, 
logging, management interfaces, and web-server pages. 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>What I'm getting is that 
>various folks are running out of gas with Java and are using these
>application server products as an attempt to extend the life of Java.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bullshit.

As I said, app-servers are concrete implementations of various 
standardized service API´s (JTA/JAAS/JMX/JAXP/JSP) that are nowadays 
a fundamental and well-integrated part of the language, but 
that require a particular (commercial or  Open Source) 
service provider. 

This is IMHO a very reasonable strategy of SUN to allow third-party 
vendors to add value to Java, i.e., to take them into the boat! 
Furthermore, why should you pollute your runtime environment with such
extensions, if you don´t need them for applet programming?

What indeed has happened is that people have been running out 
of gas with the traditional way of letting application programmers 
care about these services by hand (for example: "Here´s the database 
connection. You have to speak SQL to it!"). Since the advent of MTS 
and the like,  there are now frameworks which take from you that burden (for
example:
"Just mark the object that you like to persist in the database 
and off you go!") and incredibly speed up the development process.
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>It _seems_ to me like Mozart is a fundamentally better idea. How should
>this be communicated to folks?
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You are comparing apples with apple trees (ok, the metaphor should
be the other way around: Mozart & Java=Trees; App-Servers=Complete Trees 
with Apples and Oranges and Cherrys and ...). Compare the trees and it´s a
legal 
opinion from a particular standpoint. Compare the fruites and we talk again.

CGJ
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