httpd in mozart

Mon Jan 20 12:06:13 CET 2003

Dear Andreas,

Thanks for the extensive answer. It is good to know that you are still 
working on it.

At 16:27 18-1-2003 +0100, you wrote:
>Since we don't update the mogul packages on a regular basis, we recommend 
>to check out all the needed stuff from cvs with a single command; then you 
>have the chance to update whenever we fix something, and possibly even 
>commit any fixes directly once we have seen that you know what you are 
>doing and given you cvs write access. :-)
>(The following is assuming that you are running on some *nix, not on Windows.)
>         mkdir foo
>         cd foo
>         setenv CVSROOT :pserver:afranke at cvs.mathweb.org:/CVS/mathweb
>         cvs login
>         ...: omega
>         cvs checkout mmbase
>(or:    cvs checkout .  but that's more stuff)

I do not have much experience with cvs, but I seem to need a password for this.

>Our main use for the web server is our MBase demo, see
>         http://mbase.mathweb.org:8080/mbase/

Currently I don't seem to be able to access this, but I will try later on.

>Right this weekend I'm in the process of setting up a "developer 
>distribution" for linux, so that you can simply download a (big) tarball, 
>unpack it, run a setup script, and then you have the same as in the binary 
>distribution, but with a full mozart development environment, a full mysql 
>package, and a complete local source tree ready for use with cvs, where a 
>simple 'make install' is all you need for a modification of a source file 
>to take effect. If you don't mind, I will cc: you on the mail when I 
>announce it.

Yes, please. I am using window, but I can easily switch to linux...

>If you are using only windows, then I have some more news:
>- The mozart shell has not been used on Windows at all yet, so I would 
>recommend to only use the 'pure' HTTP server for now.
>- We have a student who has the goal of porting our MBase software to 
>Windows (currently it runs only on linux,
>   solaris, and possibly Mac OS X). But it's not clear whether he will be 
> able to complete this task, or when that will be ready. But if we're 
> lucky, we should have it finished, including everything, in a month or so.

That will be very interesting. As the final platform, this will probably be 
linux anyway, but for testing and development, I prefer windows, though the 
latest developments on

> > - do you recommend using it for a (non profit) webserver, which need to 
> run
> > for months uninterrupted or would a combination with apache using e.g.
> > ports be a better alternative?
>
>If it's a requirement that the server runs uninterrupted for months, then 
>you are better off using some heavily tested standard solution,
>like apache. We implemented the web server because we wanted to avoid the 
>emulator startup at each HTTP request, to have faster
>response time and less server load. If this isn't a problem for you, just 
>use ordinary Mozart programs as CGI scripts.

Right now I am thinking of a setup using the apache server as a frontend 
and php to support sessions. CGI scipts would be very slow, so I thought to 
use ports instead. I played around this weekend and it seems to work 
reasonably fast. I don't know how dependable they are though. I possible I 
would like to have a completely mozart solution though.

Actually, does your http server support sessions and cookies, I definitely 
need those...

>If it's an experimental probject, then you may still consider the Oz httpd 
>solution. Within the next 6 months, I should be able to fix any bugs you 
>find in my code, as long as you provide a reproduceable test case.

That is good to know.

> > - do you have other suggestions or remarks if I would like to use 
> mozart  functionality in webpages for presentation
>
>Yes, I have: Matthias Picker has implemented a WebDAV server in Mozart, as 
>far as I know. See:
>         http://www.mozart-oz.org/lists/oz-users/1287.html
>But I'm not sure whether the source is freely available;
>maybe you can just ask him:
>         http://www.virtual-earth.de/kontakt/kontakt.htm
>If you get a response, please forward it to me, too.

I will contact him.

>And now for something completely different: I think it would be nice if 
>Mozart had support for template processing, maybe like the 
>Template-Toolkit for perl. Just in case, if you agree and you are 
>implementing something like this anyway and it's going to be open source, 
>then please keep me informed; someone of our group may want to participate 
>in the work.

Or perhaps something like mozart server pages? Would not be too difficult I 
feel. Or have qtk-data transform to html forms and so?

The project I am busy with right now is a non profit human rights project 
to raise awareness for Tibetan prisoners in Tibet. When it is finished I 
would like to make ex-Tibetan prisoners in India responsible for 
maintaining the site. I would gladly donate any sources I develop for this 
project and participate with anybody who wants to contribute. As it is now, 
besides myself, I can have one person work on it almost full time for as 
long as it takes. He knows mozart quite well by now. For this I would like 
to develop a sort of content management and presentation system. It will be 
a very serious and long term project, of which this is just the first step.
As a first step for now I see it would be something like this.

1. use apache / php as webserver, cookies / session maintenance
2. use xslt as html rendering engine
3. use Mozart (through sockets) as a content server, generating xml for 
xslt processing.
4. use Mozart/Qtk as an administrator interface to update data
5. use cocoon as pdf generating engine.

1. could be replaced by your http server.
2. sablotron could be made a library for Mozart
3. port wouldn't be necessary in a native implementation.
At present we have a prototype of persistent dom (only the low-level part). 
I am not sure whether storing xml is the way to go or to use the build-in 
mozart data representation. The later may be more easy and straightforward.
4. Mozart will of course be able to serve remote administrator directly.
5. perhaps fop could be made to work directly in Mozart.

Right now I am just wading through the Mozart documentation and trying out 
various alternatives. I have experience with apache / php / xslt however.

If you have any suggestions regarding the above, I am very interested, 
especially since you have a lot of experience in this particular area I 
would be very happy if you could participate or give your input.

Maarten

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